Are TOUTS Really "That" Bad???

[TheTouthouse]

Hello Rx Posters,

As I sort through the neverending posts about sports handicapping services here at therx.com. I have come to one inevitable and undeniable conclusion. The Majority of the educated betting public is...1. Aware that Tout services exist...2. Consistently give them (as a whole) a negative stigma.

My Question to you is why?...Yes, we have all heard the horror stories in the past of certain sports services using unethical and illegal practices, but this is true in any business. There are always "bad apples" in the bunch.

Having said that...There are many sports handicapping services out there in the ever growing world of the internet that are honest and simply providing a service to somebody who is willing to pay them money for it. It is as simple as that. Not all Handicapping Services are Scams. That is a Fact!!

I find it very encouraging that forums such as this one exist because it does provide a very nice platform for "People to help People". Telling a friend that "Service A" has a bad reputation and providing proof of this fact is simply a good gesture and should always be continued. However constantly bashing Sports Handicapping Services in general I believe is unfair.

Having said that.....I have come to the conclusion that there are only 2 reasons why one would consistently bash tout services, And yes it seems as though the same people on this forum and many other major sports handicapping forums continue to do this. The Reasons are:

1. These people have been taken advantage of by one of the "bad apples", I am sorry for this and feel for you.

2. These people would like to own a profitable sports handicapping service and are simply disgruntled that they don't have the ingenuity and/or skills to build an honest sports handicapping service or have tried and failed. Let's Be Honest...Who Wouldn't Want To Make a Living Selling Picks To Others.

There are many excellent Handicappers here at therx.com and probably make a good buck betting sports and for sure would never consider buying a pick. But This does not mean you have to constantly hover over those honest services who do.

I personally do not own a sports handicapping service because I can honestly say I am not very good. Frankly when I do bet a game. Therx.com is first place I come to decide who I am going to bet by listening to the cappers here.

LET'S JUST ALL TRY TO WORK TOGETHER TO FIND A HAPPY MEDIUM
:thumbsup2:

Good Day and Good Luck
-BigRon

 

[Dante]

OH man this is going to get interesting


Just please no flaming in the main forum...thank you:grandmais


Just heard ROOT on espn radio a few mins ago advertising his college football game of the week this saturday if you call his 800 number

UNfrickenbeliveable:nohead:

 

[RDC-3]

Ive been doing this for years and have only come across one service thats legitmately good. Dont throw your money away on these wanna be used car salesmen....99.9% of them are full of sh!t.uppy:

 

[TheTouthouse]

Very keen observation RDC-3. Would you mind providing proof that the remaining 99.9% of them are unethical?

Thanks
BigRon

 

[applepicks]

Most Tout services will sell both sides of games. That way they can get at least 50% of their clientle back to spend more money. Has anyone looked at some of the Big Touts records this year. Flippin a coin provides better results. If you had a good year "BigRon" congrats. Unfortunately you've come to a place where we can hit better numbers than 90% of the Touts and we don't have to pay for them. Why is it that TOUTS sell their picks? Why not just play them and walk away a multi-millionaire if your that good?
The forum world has been hard on Touts for years because we hit better numbers and don't have to pay for em'. We simply put don't want people to get scammed and these forums provide picks for free so there is no worry of getting scammed. APPLE

PS. I have a ton more to say on the subject, but will refrain from doing so as to not start flaming the fire.

 

[TheTouthouse]

Thanks for the reply applepicks.

Yes, we have all heard the old adage of a sports handicapping service releasing both sides of a game and If memory serves me correct there have been people prosecuted for this.

I agree with you that many rx posters here do have "much" better records than many or even all of the services out there.

However, I believe you have strayed from the point of my original post.

Good Luck
-BigRon

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

Hey, I love touts, the more the merrier I always say. Besides, touts and I are hardly on the same bets anyway. But the problem with touts is, 95% are salesmen, not handicappers. And sales is the deceiver.

Commonly still used practices...

Having multiple situations: AFC game of the week, NFC game of the week, underdog of the week, favorite of the week. Sometimes guys have a dozen or more spots. The only one you hear about is the 8-0. Or 7-1. That they are collectively 40% is never mentioned.

Having a great record but...When it comes times for a free public display, it all goes in the shitter. I call this the FROG Diogenes factor. Always looking for that honest man. Well, when all the claims say you make money for everyone, and then you lay an egg, going sub 35% for free, I have to wonder, are you hitting 75% on the nonfree stuff to offset this?

The if I don't win, you get blah blah blah for free. Well this one is just laughable. Why in the hell would anyone want a free day, week or month of a service that dumped the first play they gave you? Is that confidence inspiring? You get what you pay for.

The using of lines not available to the betting public. Hey I got team A + 99 1/2 in the USA Today. My local had, I bought but forgot...to inform you. Give me a point or two extra every bet and I will also show some very nice percentages.

Locks, guarantees and others words to sell you of a can't lose bet. A PT Barnum tactic. Luring the naive public in thinking there is such a thing. Hey I have heard of these locks, time to bet the kid's college fund since it can't lose.

BS statements, inside info, mother's brother's sister said, my advanced scouting team has uncovered an awesome angle. Come on, your pissin down my back, tellin me it's raining. This is all sales.

Service has sportsbook affiliations. Let me think this one out. You are releasing plays, on a sportsbook site, to their customers, and if they win, they take the sportsbook's money, because everyone is on the side you released. When I think of business partnerships I think of mutual beneficial relationships. Both parties cannot succeed here, which one will?

Best Wishes...OF ucking:



I have never used a tout my entire career, so strike option one.

And have no desire being one, as I can earn off my own advice, I don't have to sell it, down with two. :nopityA:

 

[TheTouthouse]

Nice Comment Frog.

But I am sorry to say, we have all heard this before. "Caveat Emptor" - Let the Buyer Beware. If one is going to puchase selections from a sports handicapping service. There are ways to go about researching that individual service. Monitoring, Detail of Writeups, How Long has the service been around, etc.

By the Way, you mention salesmen. Don't You need a good pitch to sell a certain product? As the Long as the pitch is not a blatant lie, More power to them.

This does not stray away from the fact the the bashing is unfair for the honest services out there.

Good Luck,
BigRon

 

[Fishhead]

The LARGE MAJORITY of TOUTS have no idea what it takes to win in this business........and not only that, most never hit higher than 51% of their games.

All this and then individuals want to PAY for their services.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

When I was a youngster, we had touts, guys that studied the sheets, forms all day long. You respected their efforts and often the results. They had no salesman, no need, as the results sold their rep. You know when you are dealing with a salesman, you are paying them to sell you something at a higher price, than if they were not there. I think the noun tout has evolved into a slang derogatory because of the actions of more than a few. Like I said, too many use deceitful tactics, and the entire business is just about viewed as a cesspool. How much shit do you have to wade through to find the Golden Turd?

Best Wishes...OF

 

[Doug]

Even an honest one has problems. They have to get into minor stuff like props and non-major sports, any followers get a worse line.

So many bad ones give the few decent ones a bad name. Time is spent marketing not capping. They use all kinds of sub-records... I'm 9-1 on my last 10 home NBA dogs on Tuesdays !!!! Statements like that scream, FRAUD. Lines are variable, Knicks + the points becomes whatever the best line EVER was.

Then the 70% claims, 500,000 * plays, etc.

Tough business for an honest capper to get into. You'd need some exposure. There's a local tout ( Sebastian) he gets exposure by every so often taking a radio job for awhile ( sports talk). He started maybe 5 years ago giving his # over the radio program for his free picks, then a website, picks did good. Then high-priced tout. He keeps no records, like Miller. If it was good it would be there.

You need to sell your service ( advertise), that takes over the business. Your business ( income) becomes selling picks not betting them.

 

[TheTouthouse]

The LARGE MAJORITY of TOUTS have no idea what it takes to win in this business........and not only that, most never hit higher than 51% of their games.

All this and then individuals want to PAY for their services.

Thanks Fishead,

Would you be kind enough to let us in on what it takes to win in this business?

As far as quoting records. Please let me know where you find these statistics, I would like to review these numbers. Also to make a statement like that you would have to have a pretty large database considering the number of services out there and the number of picks they release compiled on that. You must have been very busy the last 40 years.

Good Luck
BigRon

 

[aceduecetrey]

I was a tout for 7 + years and although we never once "sided" our clients, it is very difficult to look out for what is best for the client when you know that the more they bet, the more they will pay after they win.

 

[Fishhead]

Thanks Fishead,

Would you be kind enough to let us in on what it takes to win in this business?



Good Luck
BigRon

Sure, here are a few and certainly not limited to just these........

DISCIPLINE
MONEY MANAGEMENT
LINE SHOPPING AND LINE EVALUATION
HARD WORK

As mentioned, the HUGE majority of these businessmen have no realm of the reality of which is sportsbetting.......................THEY ARE BUSINESS INDIVIDUALS, AND SOME ARE VERY GOOD AT THEIR BUSINESS OF MARKETING/SELLING.............and admitedly many will make MUCH more money than legit hard working gamblers.

 

[TheTouthouse]

Sure, here are a few and certainly not limited to just these........

DISCIPLINE
MONEY MANAGEMENT
LINE SHOPPING AND LINE EVALUATION
HARD WORK

As mentioned, the HUGE majority of these businessmen have no realm of the reality of which is sportsbetting.......................THEY ARE BUSINESS INDIVIDUALS, AND SOME ARE VERY GOOD AT THEIR BUSINESS OF MARKETING/SELLING.............and admitedly many will make MUCH more money than legit hard working gamblers.

Thanks Fishead,

If memory serves me correct, many of the honest sports handicapping services do refer to the aformentioned qualities of succeeding in sports betting on their websites.

But this still does not answer my question of why the continued bashing of the sports handicapping service industry has to happen. We all agree that there are "bad apples" but with talking to some of the major sports handicapping services owners out there...there are many clients who are extremely happy with their service providers and continue to puchase selections year in and year out.

Remember, with out MARKETING how can they sell. As long as it is honest and ethical It is the nature of the beast, correct?

Good Day,
BigRon

 

[Fishhead]

Thanks Fishead,

If memory serves me correct, many of the honest sports handicapping services do refer to the aformentioned qualities of succeeding in sports betting on their websites.

But this still does not answer my question of why the continued bashing of the sports handicapping service industry has to happen. We all agree that there are "bad apples" but with talking to some of the major sports handicapping services owners out there...there are many clients who are extremely happy with their service providers and continue to puchase selections year in and year out.

Remember, with out MARKETING how can they sell. As long as it is honest and ethical It is the nature of the beast, correct?

Good Day,
BigRon

No question there are a few reputable, hardworking, and money making sports services that have provided many more winners than losers over their tenure of their business and have many satisfied customers. It would be ignorant not to believe this, you are so correct.

The facts are this......

There is probably less than 2% of sports services that can provide enough winners to make their clients money over the longhaul after charging for their services.............AND THEN OF THAT 2%, more than HALF of those clients will not have enough of the qualities I listed in my previous post to keep the money anyway that the service made for them.

This is a VERY, VERY tough racket to make money in if you are not SHARP AS A THISTLE DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

 

[SPunlimited]

I had a service not anymore though and I hit 56% OR 57% thats pretty good I'm not saying its the best in the world but its solid a lot of people would take 57% anyway I never made one cent selling picks, why I'm not a good salesman and I never lied or talked any locks of the year bullshit and I guess thats what its all about so I guess thats what you got to do.

Heres a few theorys I got why people dont like touts some are just outright scams but I think thats changing some with forums and monitors and stuff.

Another one everything is the internet is about making money all these forums and sports sites they're all about making money, I see a lot on different sites around someone asks about a service or something like that and it seems like some of the mods go out of they're way to say fuck touts check out the cappers in our forums instead cause they want more post and views in the forums. One other thing about forums and stuff I think some of them and 100 times worse than any tout by promoting a shitty book where people are gonna get screwed if they put money in it.

Another one is some people who buy picks think every pick should win I've seen people post with a title like this tout is a fucking scam or something like that and inside its says I bought picks from tout A yesterday and he went 0-2 or 1-3 this guy is a complete scam. So theres probaly a lot of people out there that buy picks for a day or week and lose and think the same thing.

And then you got some stupid people that think it will make them look cooler if they talk shit about touts everybodys seen these pointless post just to bash touts in general.

And one other thing that is just stupid is when people say if they were really any good they would'nt need to sell they're picks they should just bet more and be millioniars this has got to be the stupidest statement ever. It this were true about betting sports the books would go broke in no time and everyone would be rich. Lets take Ace-ace for an example everyone would agree he's a good capper now he's had a great season but how come he's not making millions, he's up about $50,000 for the season thats a great season now lets say he had a service and made another $25,000 from it so thats the benifit of having a service and proves the stupidness of the above statement.

Anyway thats just a few thoughs from someone that has been on both side of the fence.

 

[TheTouthouse]

No question there are a few reputable, hardworking, and money making sports services that have provided many more winners than losers over their tenure of their business and have many satisfied customers. It would be ignorant not to believe this, you are so correct.

The facts are this......

There is probably less than 2% of sports services that can provide enough winners to make their clients money over the longhaul after charging for their services.............AND THEN OF THAT 2%, more than HALF of those clients will not have enough of the qualities I listed in my previous post to keep the money anyway that the service made for them.

This is a VERY, VERY tough racket to make money in if you are not SHARP AS A THISTLE DAY IN AND DAY OUT.

Thanks Fishead,

Although I do not agree with your percentages. (would have to see hard data on that fact of 2%) I do value your opinion.

Why would people constantly put forth most of their posting effort to continually bash these hard working entrepreneurs. Again as long as it is an honest and ethical sports service why continually bash the business? There have been many scam sportsbooks that went under, etc and you don't see people bashing the online sportsbook industry as much do you?

Thanks,
BigRon

 

[Polaris]

Take for example,

you have 100 happicappers

you have 100 touts

in the long run the record of the 100 hanidcappers in all likelyhood will be the same as the record of the 100 touts

touts in generally are no better than anyone else,

they are the same as everyone else!

except for they want money for their picks and that the majority of them are probably crooked

today, the sports bettor has choices with the internet and good gambling forums like this one

for the reasons stated above, how can you not get the inescapable conclusion that touts are useless!

 

[TheTouthouse]

Take for example,

you have 100 happicappers

you have 100 touts

in the long run the record of the 100 hanidcappers in all likelyhood will be the same as the record of the 100 touts

touts in generally are no better than anyone else,

they are the same as everyone else!

except for they want money for their picks and that the majority of them are probably crooked

today, the sports bettor has choices with the internet and good gambling forums like this one

for the reasons stated above, how can you not get the inescapable conclusion that touts are useless!

Thanks Polaris,

We certainly are not debating records. Handicappers have ebbs and flows just like the stock market. We are debating the need for the constant harassment of sports handicapping services.

If they are honest and selling there selections, and the customer is happy, then what is the problem with it. Correct?

The Fact that you said, "how can you not get the inescapable conclustion that touts are useless" and "majority of them are probably crooked" is the problem we are discussing. This is the kind of blatant criticism without fact that is the problem.

Good Day.
BigRon